You've been an extremely positive inspiration, thanks for doing what you do! I haven't been involved in SerenityOS in a long time, but when I've been it's been a gratifying experience. All the best with Ladybird, which seems to be doing some giant steps!
I can't believe how quickly those last couple of years have gone. Ladybird has come such a long way in that time, and I'm excited to see how the next few years will go! :^)
I'll start this comment off by admitting that I'm an outside observer who has taken no part in SerenityOS or Ladybird development, nor was I aware of either project until today.
That being said, I'm puzzled by something in this seemingly straightforward article.
Andreas, you mention that Ladybird and SerenityOS have shared the same resources for too long, and that your time has, as of late, been devoted entirely to Ladybird development, with Ladybird gaining multiple build targets. That in itself seems like a very valid reason to split the two projects, of course.
You also state that there's no drama behind this change.
That's where confusion sets in for me. Perhaps this is because I have no knowledge of these projects or the people involved, but a single bullet point seems to indicate that there are problems behind the curtain:
"Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped."
For a project which is purposefully branching out to more targeted systems, why is it suddenly dropping it's original build target?
As far as I understand, that's because SerenityOS has the "no 3rd party code" rule in it, and Ladybird could become an even more relevant project by levereging other open source projects and libraries.
Really sad about this move as it pretty much signals the death of SerenityOS project. I wish ladybird had at least kept that fledgling OS as an official target...
I agree. I first came across Serenity when Andreas had c. 1,000 subscribers, and this does make me extremely sad. The world needs OS choice as much as it needs browser choice, maybe more. Seeing Serenity not be a target of the project it spawned is likely the nail in the coffin.
I think it is a good solution. Personally, when I wanted to mess a bit with Ladybird I felt that the "I have to pull the entire SerenityOS repo" was as an entry barrier. I am glad there is now a more straightforward way to approach the project.
Ah, this is sad and probably not good for both projects:
1) Dropping SerenityOS as a target means that it never gets a proper browser, which in turn probably means it will never become an actual everyday OS (I know it is not the main goal, but it is so good in so many ways that I think many people were hoping for this)
2) And for Ladybird: if it now starts to use third party libraries it kind of looses its unique selling point over other already existing browsers, doesn't it?
Sadly we don't want to use a project maintained by misogynistic and immature guys who like Twitter better than the Fediverse because it's so nice there...
Great stuff overall, although as an end-user excited for a new independent browser, I am wondering if there’s any possibility in you sharing parts of the code base where you think it would make sense, with e.g. https://www.netsurf-browser.org and vice-versa?
The no third party code policy was interesting. A bit of mixed feelings that the fork keeps the name even tho such a drastic policy change has happened.
Also was there no suggestion to move to EU based code hosting? Codeberg is quite popular.
And is there an alternative to Discord? Matrix, XMPP or IRC?
I starting playing with Ladybird and ended up doing more work on SerenityOS in the end: I think that's the way to go!
What does it mean for Ladybird on SerenityOS? I guess it will live its own life right now but should it be renamed to something else?
Also, does it mean dependencies like video/audio/graphic libraries that were implemented from scratch in SerenityOS will be replaced by more robust/tested/complete OSS libs in the forked Ladybird?
You've been an extremely positive inspiration, thanks for doing what you do! I haven't been involved in SerenityOS in a long time, but when I've been it's been a gratifying experience. All the best with Ladybird, which seems to be doing some giant steps!
I can't believe how quickly those last couple of years have gone. Ladybird has come such a long way in that time, and I'm excited to see how the next few years will go! :^)
I'll start this comment off by admitting that I'm an outside observer who has taken no part in SerenityOS or Ladybird development, nor was I aware of either project until today.
That being said, I'm puzzled by something in this seemingly straightforward article.
Andreas, you mention that Ladybird and SerenityOS have shared the same resources for too long, and that your time has, as of late, been devoted entirely to Ladybird development, with Ladybird gaining multiple build targets. That in itself seems like a very valid reason to split the two projects, of course.
You also state that there's no drama behind this change.
That's where confusion sets in for me. Perhaps this is because I have no knowledge of these projects or the people involved, but a single bullet point seems to indicate that there are problems behind the curtain:
"Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped."
For a project which is purposefully branching out to more targeted systems, why is it suddenly dropping it's original build target?
As far as I understand, that's because SerenityOS has the "no 3rd party code" rule in it, and Ladybird could become an even more relevant project by levereging other open source projects and libraries.
Really sad about this move as it pretty much signals the death of SerenityOS project. I wish ladybird had at least kept that fledgling OS as an official target...
I agree. I first came across Serenity when Andreas had c. 1,000 subscribers, and this does make me extremely sad. The world needs OS choice as much as it needs browser choice, maybe more. Seeing Serenity not be a target of the project it spawned is likely the nail in the coffin.
My guess would be that making it OK for Ladybird to depend on 3rd party libs prevents it from supporting SerenityOS?
I think it is a good solution. Personally, when I wanted to mess a bit with Ladybird I felt that the "I have to pull the entire SerenityOS repo" was as an entry barrier. I am glad there is now a more straightforward way to approach the project.
Ah, this is sad and probably not good for both projects:
1) Dropping SerenityOS as a target means that it never gets a proper browser, which in turn probably means it will never become an actual everyday OS (I know it is not the main goal, but it is so good in so many ways that I think many people were hoping for this)
2) And for Ladybird: if it now starts to use third party libraries it kind of looses its unique selling point over other already existing browsers, doesn't it?
Sadly we don't want to use a project maintained by misogynistic and immature guys who like Twitter better than the Fediverse because it's so nice there...
As a designer, I have the hope that Ladybird will benefit from a simple, yet great user interface.
If this is one of your priorities, please reach out.
Great stuff overall, although as an end-user excited for a new independent browser, I am wondering if there’s any possibility in you sharing parts of the code base where you think it would make sense, with e.g. https://www.netsurf-browser.org and vice-versa?
The no third party code policy was interesting. A bit of mixed feelings that the fork keeps the name even tho such a drastic policy change has happened.
Also was there no suggestion to move to EU based code hosting? Codeberg is quite popular.
And is there an alternative to Discord? Matrix, XMPP or IRC?
I was hoping for LibPDF to be the PDF reader in Ladybird. Seems like that won't happen now. Shame...
You are awesome Andreas. Thank you for being such an inspiring human being.
Time has really gone quickly. I know it was a huge decision, best wishes going forward l!
Will ladybird still track the Lib* libraries from Serenity?
I starting playing with Ladybird and ended up doing more work on SerenityOS in the end: I think that's the way to go!
What does it mean for Ladybird on SerenityOS? I guess it will live its own life right now but should it be renamed to something else?
Also, does it mean dependencies like video/audio/graphic libraries that were implemented from scratch in SerenityOS will be replaced by more robust/tested/complete OSS libs in the forked Ladybird?